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Post by SugarMagnolia on Oct 19, 2007 11:35:17 GMT -5
Hi texasgal! I also appreciate what you are saying too. It's tricky because there's actually a few posters on this board who sometimes post things that are a bit personal, and it is best to err on the side of caution and not post personal things. It is breaching certain boundaries to post some of these kinds of things if you know first hand and he isn't announcing it publicly. I would also say that for the most part, it seems well intentioned and meaning to defend rather than harm -- even so there are certain things said here that I would never hope to see on another forum, and I wouldn't spread around something so personal as a "what really happened" or "what Owen was really doing was". In this particular case, I think caraboo was especially upset by the rumors that were circulating about the Viceroy, and she apparently had been with Owen in similar situations and wanted to share her more positive interpretation of the events. I have also read other sources, before this week but since the attempt, that said Owen had a history of cutting, depression, and low self-esteem. So there's still the possibility that caraboo is getting some of her information from those tabloids and magazines. (In terms of psychiatry I read her comment at the end of the message as sort of self-deprecating and trying to be funny, like "playing armchair psychiatrist" from a distance, not that she actually is a psychiatrist. If she were it definitely does violate patient privacy HIPAA and all that.) Of course you are right that those people who know Owen shouldn't divulge personal information. It's got to be a challenge when you feel like you know something that disproves a false and derogatory tabloid story, so I can see why it's a tough call for everyone. Double posting.... The more I've thought about it, the more troubled I've become. You know, if someone actually KNOWS Owen well enough to diagnose him as "severely clinically depressed" or who knows Owen well enough to know this fact about him and posts it, that person has violated Owen's privacy and is no friend of his. I find this especially disturbing when Owen has not yet announced this fact about himself publicly. No names, but if this poster knows this information about Owen on a professional level, he/she is in violation of patient privacy laws. Where I come from, this issue is so significant that violations of it can and do lead to immediate job dismissal. Until Owen confirms this about himself, I'd take this alleged information with as much grain of salt as anything else that's been posted or written about him.
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Post by texasgal on Oct 19, 2007 12:52:28 GMT -5
I appreciate what you say, SugarMagnolia. But a real friend would let their friend divulge his own personal information about himself, not get the "jump" on it to make one's self look important. It's HIS news to disclose, not anyone else's. I'm sure Owen is well aware of the wild stories that are being circulated about him. If he wants the world to know he is severely clinically depressed, he will reveal it himself in his own time.
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Post by SugarMagnolia on Oct 19, 2007 12:54:13 GMT -5
Very true, texasgal!
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Post by Lom83 on Oct 19, 2007 13:25:50 GMT -5
Eh, its very hard to know what really goes on in these situations. Having been a fan of a pop group for some 10 years there was often alot of gossip going around, very similar stuff. Supposed 'insider's quoting to the press or media or posting on forums but if you ask these people alot of the time like to prove how they are a real friend of or otherwise actually know the celebrity in person, they do tend to get very coy which I always find, well, quite suspicious put it that way...
I can imagine that if I knew the person and I knew the media were saying some really harmful and derogatory things about them, im sure I would feel in some way compelled to tell at least to the fans that its not the case but if you can't even prove that you really know the person then it just adds to the confusion... and if the person themselves didn't give you the um authorization to talk about them like that, then its not really fair I guess...
Anyway Wes has already said that Owen will talk about it and 'set the record straight' so to speak, I believe, at some point. Until then, people shouldn't speculate... but this celeb-land and Hollywood and all of that surreal thing, some people seem to have it in their heads that by being a celeb, it makes it ok to label and gossip in whatever way interests them, the person...
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Post by texasgal on Oct 19, 2007 20:09:07 GMT -5
Very true what you both say, Sugar Magnolia & Lom.
IF we had been writing derogatory gossip about Owen and putting stock into it, I would understand someone who knows Owen personally posting something in his defense. (That is, IF this person knows Owen at all, which has never been proven. We're just supposed to accept such a claim at face value).
However, that isn't the case. The vast majority of us have posted gossip about Owen but have expressed doubts about the story's credibility. That's why I don't understand why someone who claims to know Owen would feel compelled to defend him. What did we say to warrant such a hostile posting? We haven't been attacking him!
And isn't it rather back-handed to "defend" Owen by claiming him to be a severely clinically depressed cutter with no self-esteem? If that's 'defense,' what constitutes an attack?
Finally, notice the person never did establish that Owen gave her permission to say this about him.
So with that, nuff said.
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Post by Lom83 on Oct 20, 2007 5:45:19 GMT -5
Yeah I don't see that as being any kind of a 'defence' really, in fact people who post such things and take the time to specifically mention that they know the person, are quite, well, attention-seeking, I reckon, alot of people think that. They secretly hope people will contact them and ask for more info. and it makes them feel good knowing that people are maybe jealous of them for supposedly being an 'insider' or friend of theirs and that sort of thing... its so incredibly easy to lie and/or post whatever you like on the internet, its always worth remembering that. I've been fooled before becoming friends with someone who claimed to have a link to a celeb, though I was friends with them because we had similar interests and seemed to get on well but when I realised that they had lied, I stopped talking to them because it was hard to know where the lies ended and it all seemed very fake... im not entirely sure why some people seem to work so hard to prove their someone their not *shrug* oh well, anyway yes enough said I guess, srry I added an extra bit there lol
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Post by Remi on Oct 20, 2007 7:13:09 GMT -5
I understood caraboo as expressing her opinion, and not stating "facts" that haven't been already been published in the media. Just a refresher from the "Guidelines" thread (if I'm wrong, and for anyone else who may have questions about whether or not something should be posted in the future): It's so hard to decipher the truth (if any) from many articles today. We've never had a problem discussing and many times even disputing what is printed out there. That doesn't need to stop! Please just be careful not to post anything that is personal.
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Post by Lom83 on Oct 20, 2007 7:23:00 GMT -5
I understood caraboo as expressing her opinion, and not stating "facts" that haven't been already been published in the media. Just a refresher from the "Guidelines" thread (if I'm wrong, and for anyone else who may have questions about whether or not something should be posted in the future): It's so hard to decipher the truth (if any) from many articles today. We've never had a problem discussing and many times even disputing what is printed out there. That doesn't need to stop! Please just be careful not to post anything that is personal. I think thats perfectly fair enough... btw im a bit confused; it was mentioned or inferred earlier in the thread I believe that someone in the forums here had been talking about Owen and saying they know things as a friend or acquaitance or such (Caraboo?) but I don't really recall reading any such posts on this forum... maybe im just forgetful though ive got a stinker of a cold so I maybe did forget... I noticed their reporting the rumour about Owen drinking heavily at the Viceroy I think it is, on one of my favourite websites now, Digital Spy (a British site with really popular forums and news all about digital entertainment TV shows and new technology as well as showbiz and stuff), thats where I first read about him going to hospital in late August. Does anyone know if he has any plans to leave LA for any length of time, people keep saying like that he's been to the Grand Canyon and a couple of other places but it sounds like only for a day or so, if it were me I don't know how I'd cope trying to 'find myself' and heal well in what I see as being quite a heavily scrutinised place such as Hollywood... with the media being all over the place and it being such a 'fake' place from the sounds of things... plus you hear its too easy to get stuff there too, not so good I think. If that makes any sense(?)...
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Post by Remi on Oct 20, 2007 8:28:36 GMT -5
It wasn't caraboo. There have been a few claims to that here in the past. However, I don't think it would be appropriate to name those people.
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Post by Lom83 on Oct 20, 2007 9:17:43 GMT -5
It wasn't caraboo. There have been a few claims to that here in the past. However, I don't think it would be appropriate to name those people. ah, ok. Sorry I got a bit confused there...
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Post by texasgal on Oct 20, 2007 10:33:56 GMT -5
Thank you for posting the Guidelines, Remi. It was a good time to do so.
So, if I understand correctly, any of us may make definitive statements about Owen (or anyone else), such as Owen is x, y, z and there is no implied or explicit need to provide supporting evidence such as citing sources or how we come to know x, y, z about Owen or anyone else.
Over the years I've noticed that 99.9% of us have held ourselves to (apparently) self-imposed, near-journalistic (in my opinion) standards by prefacing our statements with disclaimers such as I read that, I think that , my impression is, and so on. This is one reason why I've thought of our forum as the respectable place I thought it was, that it is a cut above other forums.
But if such disclaimers aren't needed or expected and we may post whatever we want as if we speak from first-hand authority, I'm afraid there's great potential for the forum to sink to a lower level. But if that's what the Guidelines permit, and the majority and those in control want, then so it should be.
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Post by Remi on Oct 20, 2007 11:25:30 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying, Tex. But, I think it would be difficult to ask everyone to preface every statement with a disclaimer that it is just an opinion they are expressing. I don't think it's too much to ask people to use good judgment when deciding to post something that isn't in the media, and use care that you might give the rest of us the wrong impression.
I'll discuss it with the other Admins, and see how they feel about it.
In the interest of keeping this thread on topic, if anyone has anything to add to the discussion about the Guidelines, please PM me and I'll pass it along to the other Admins.
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caraboo
Hutch's Tiny Dancer
Posts: 75
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Post by caraboo on Oct 20, 2007 15:31:19 GMT -5
Ok I think I'd better step in here with a few clarifications. I am sorry that I have caused some sort of sh*tstorm, that was NEVER my intention.
Firstly, The "this is bs" comment was not leveled at people on this forum, it was a comment about all the rumours in the tabloid press, that are so over the top and sensationalised, that were being discussed in the topic. Secondly, I live in Australia and do not know Owen, I've never claimed to know Owen. I am not sure how people have made some sort of a connection between me and him. I am a bit distressed by that quite frankly. I've been around here posting for years. I thought everyone knew be by now. I know I don't comment on everything, but I do read what others have to say.
My intention was to cut through the awful, awful stuff that is being claimed. insinuated, the Viceroy incidents being the latest. Behind all of this stuff lies the true story and it is not as exciting as the sensationlised one, yet the stories that come out are the ones that are believed. As a fan of Owen I find that really hard to take. I am a psychologist, with many years experience in psychiatric treatment, and although I have not seen Owen, I've seen a lot of cases and read carefully what his close friends and allies have said, to feel strongly that his main issue is depression. something that Owen himself has been quite open about. More power to him I say. All this is my opinion. I can be quite opinionated when riled, but understand I would never say anything harmful about Owen. i was acting in his defense as a commentator on the internet to cut through some of the crap.
The definitive statement will come from Owen himself when he's ready.
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Post by SugarMagnolia on Oct 20, 2007 15:50:58 GMT -5
I also want to apologize too, I may have jumped in with the wrong kinds of statements here. I think I was confused when posters like Caraboo said things to the effect of "the real story is...", when I read that I had the misperception that the real story was known to people on the board who might have actually been there... my fault! Sorry!
In terms of defending Owen, I totally understand how everyone feels. For me, there's a moment where I want to do and say everything I can to show that the media are totally full of it. That's usually one of my main motivations for posting something, or for giving extra information when a story is found in the media and gets picked up elsewhere like this Viceroy Hotel one was. Then, after I do a little more digging, I have a moment where I think everyone knows the media is full of it, and I think why should we worry and waste our time when we know it's full of it? Then, in that moment, inevitably I see someone else posting something negative about Owen at a place like the IMDB, and my silly need to be a guardian angel comes out again. I'm sorry that in the course of all this, I was adding to misunderstanding here.
I think texasgal has a great point, I think Remi is a great moderator sharing the information and I think caraboo is really kind to be defending Owen and to be sharing her psychology expertise. Thank you caraboo for sharing that you had not seen Owen yourself. In terms of texasgal and the question she asked earlier about whether making statements about Owen's psychological state are really a defense, then what is the attack in the first place, you're right, it's completely nutty, but I can understand how for some of us it seems like the media has attacked him with charges of drinking to excess and driving, and that for some, it seems like a defense to point out that it could be a psychological/depression/self harm issue. It's all because of the context we live in now, where the media seems to want to attack him with certain specific behaviors, when the underlying psychology might be what is really at stake.
I'm sorry for any hurt feelings or inappropriate things I said! Take care!
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caraboo
Hutch's Tiny Dancer
Posts: 75
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Post by caraboo on Oct 20, 2007 16:48:25 GMT -5
Super Magnolia said:
In terms of texasgal and the question she asked earlier about whether making statements about Owen's psychological state are really a defense, then what is the attack in the first place, you're right, it's completely nutty, but I can understand how for some of us it seems like the media has attacked him with charges of drinking to excess and driving, and that for some, it seems like a defense to point out that it could be a psychological/depression/self harm issue. It's all because of the context we live in now, where the media seems to want to attack him with certain specific behaviors, when the underlying psychology might be what is really at stake.
All I can say is that something quite clearly went terribly wrong for Owen, we can only make an informed speculation on what occurred by joining the dots of our experiences and knowledge of him as a person. We pay close attention to his actions and scrutinise his every move and analyse every comment. We pay close attention to the comments that are made about him by others. I think that Wes's comments have been very revealing, especially those made on Hollywood Shootout last week. He has said more than anyone really.
I have worked with drug addicts for most of my working life, you could knock me over with a feather if it turned out that Owen was doing drugs on the scale that the tabloids claim and the types of drugs claimed. It doesn't add up. He clearly tries to lead a healthy lifestyle. He exercises everyday and eats really good food. I don't think that Owen is a self-destructor. Owen is proactive person, we can tell this by his behaviours in other areas of his life, if alcohol was a problem, he'd treat it as such. He chooses to continue to socialize with his friends and drink alcohol, which tells me it's not a problem. He has close friends and family that would step in for sure if there was a any problem with alcohol. Owen has denied that he has a problem with alcohol in the past, and I believe him, because he is quite candid about other things in his life. Why should he lie. ( although I can also be very gulllible when not wanting to know what may be the awful truth about a something)
Thanks for your kind comments Supermagnolia. I appreciate them and they make me feel better. I know that everyone here has Owen's back.
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