polankski rape

[tinalouise]

I can understand being disappointed by this. I do however feel that Wes is coming under much more fire than the rest of the people on the list. There is also, remember, Natalie Portman, Harrison Ford, Martin Scorsese, Woody Allen, Harvey Weinstein.... bla bla....

I guess because this is a forum about Wes we are singling him out.

Boycott his movie if you want, but if the facts about this case have upset you so much why not do something proactive rather than reactive? I find it funny that so many people are jumping on this bandwagon. He has been a fugitive for 30 years. All this has been brought up numerous times most recently when he was up for an Oscar for the Pianist. I don't remember people being so riled up calling for his arrest back then.

Artists are strange people. I am not condoning bad behavior, but in reality, half of the art in museums have been done by pedophiles, rapists, etc. Should we stop going to museums? What about the music written by Wilhelm Wagner? Should his operas never be played again because he was a Nazi sympathizer?

The best example would be of Mr. Polanski himself, and his movie The Pianist. One of the most moving films to ever be made about the Holocaust. It would be a shame to have never seen this movie. Should it be banned because of things Roman did in his private life? Should the outstanding performance of Adrian Brody go unnoticed because of this case?

It is your decision if you think boycotting the work of these people who signed the petition will bring justice in your eyes. But like I said, why not do something proactive rather than sit back and call for a boycott or call Wes snob. If you would like to fire off an angry letter to him, his agent address is:

Wes Anderson c/o
United Talent Agency
9560 Wilshire Blvd.
Suite 500
Beverly Hills, CA 90212-2401
USA

[rach]

thanks 4 the address, everyone on the list is scum, i`m most angry with wes because i have always raved about him,i think he is the most amazing film maker,but he has crossed a line with me..he has his rights but so do 13 year old girls.who need to be protected by law.it`s gonna be interesting to see him promote this new movie,the press better give him a hard time.

[texasgal]

Tinalouise, you make an interesting point about music and Wilhelm Richard Wagner. Wagner was a well-known antisemite whose music was adored by the Nazis as it glorified ancient German culture and mythology. He is famous for having composed the music for the operas The Flying Dutchman, Tannhauser, Lohengrin, Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg, Der Ring, and Parsifal. Up until the 1980's, Wagner's music was banned in Israel. To this day, there are protests surrounding any Israeli orchestra who plays it. Some musicians refuse to play it and walk out. People in the audience make all kinds of noises during its performance. I can sympathize with them.

Yet I'm one who enjoys listening to Wagner's music despite the fact that it's so closely associated with the Nazis. It's too compelling not to give a listen. So does this make me a hypocrite? Most likely!!

I know others don't care what Wes was thinking, but I'd like an explanation. (And yes I'm singling out Wes because this is a Wes forum). I hope in some public setting someday some journalist confronts him about it: Hey Wes, what the hell were you thinking? Maybe Wes knows Polanski personally, sees some good qualities and is trying (inappropriately!) to "accentuate the positive." Also, there are people on the list whom we know Wes admires, such as Martin Scorsese. Is Wes being expedient by closing ranks with Scorsese and others like him? Whatever the explanation, it doesn't speak well of Wes.

When I consider that petition list, I smell a strong scent of "herd mentality."

Just trying to get to the bottom of this and this petition thing. I don't understand why seeing justice proceed forth is so ruinous to art - or even to Roman Polanski himself. After all, we're not talking about the McCarthy hearings here; we're talking about a crime against a child. Prisoners accomplish all kinds of things while encarcerated: they complete Ph.D. degrees, they write books, plays, etc. So I don't see why a petition was necessary at all.

I agree angry letters to everyone on the list is the best effective action to take. It does no good to just silently boycott movies and TV shows. Let them know you're angry and why and that you will not be patronizing their art any longer and that you will encourage everyone you know not to do so. There must be all kinds of like-minded groups forming on Facebook that are gaining thousands of members as I type this. I think taking action is a good positive thing to do.

[iluvtexas]

Tinalouise

You make some fine points. I appreciate the contact information for Wes Anderson. Thank you.

In addition to your suggestion which is a very good one, I would also like to provide an answer to your comment and question "Boycott his movie if you want, but if the facts about this case have upset you so much why not do something proactive rather than reactive?"

I think my personal choice not to support Wes Anderson movies or anything he is involved in, is proactive and it is most certainly in reaction to his signing the petition. I also will not support any of the other folks who have signed the petition and in previous comments I have explained why.

Granted there are many additional ways to voice your concern(s) but currently this is how I have chosen to voice mine. However, I am considering writing a letter to Wes Anderson using the contact information you thoughtfully provided.

You have cited very stong examples, yet for me the flip side is this ....there are many works of art past and present created by good people, respectable, law abiding people around the world and those works of art are also in museums. "Should we stop going to museums?" I say no, of course not and for the specific reason I just stated.

Regarding "Wagner" and his music I have learned something about him from you and Texasgal and I thank you both for the lesson.

As to why the uproar now regarding "Polanski" and "Wes Anderson's" support of him via the petition .... Texasgal said it very well and I agree "(And yes I'm singling out Wes because this is a Wes forum)"

I also think the petition itself has brought this issue to the forefront more so than just a headline in the newspaper, because familiar Hollywood folks have signed the petition in support of "Polanski." Yes, the crime(s) "Polanski" committed have been news for a very long time and rightly so. But the related petition itself is also news worthy. It stands as a testament of the callous, condoning attitude many Hollywood folks obviously have toward the drugging and rape of a child. #unsure#

[tinalouise]

Can anyone find it published online anywhere exactly the petition signed? Exactly what it says?

I would look but I have to scram now and will be away most of the day.

[floot]

I'll confess I had not heard of the case before now. I don't have a TV and I don't generally keep up with the lives of the rich and famous, bar the few I have a genuine interest in, and there are many, many Hollywood stories that "everyone knows" that I find out and have never come across before. To be honest, it's likely that the news may have passed me by again had I not become interested in Wes's films in the interim.

I do also think, though, that it's not that surprising that more coverage and more outcry is surrounding the case now.

Rightly or wrongly, people are going to be more likely to hear about the case when it's not "just" (and I use the word only because there isn't a better alternative - I'm not trying to undermine the facts of the case) about a 30 year old rape case, but also about a good number of powerful Hollywood people trying to excuse or cover up or otherwise blur over the facts of that case.

This forum is an example of that - a group of people who have become more involved in the case because a favourite filmmaker appears to be excusing RP's behaviour. It's gaining more coverage because it has become a case about the morality of the film world as well as about Polanski's own morality.

The example of The Pianist can be looked at from both angles; yes, it would be a great shame never to have seen this movie because of Polanski's private life.

However, even if Polanski had been in prison, the book would still have been there to be adapted, the screenwriter or some other writer might still have written the screenplay, and one can never know whether another director might have done just as good a job. It's a "what if" and we can't possibly be sure.

Does the excellent direction of one of the most moving films ever about the Holocaust balance out the lack of justice in the rape of a 13 year old girl?

Would it balance it out if he was instead a relatively penniless and uninfluential artist who happened to paint the most moving picture about the Holocaust? Or make the most moving sculpture?

Would it be different if he was a writer who had written a moving book about the Holocaust?

Would anyone be suggesting he should be exonerated if he were just an average Joe (besides the rape and running from justice) who told his children and grandchildren and their friends moving stories about the Holocaust and encouraged them to be more loving, accepting people because he believed that that might stop it happening again in the future?

I know these are rhetorical, "what if?" questions, but if Polanski can avoid facing justice because he is a rich, successful, influential director, what does that say about the judicial system and what does it tell the teenage girls the age of consent law is supposed to protect?

As others have said, I don't know whether it would serve any purpose for Polanski to spend his remaining years in prison. Maybe some other form of restitution would be more appropriate. But I don't think that it's for me, or for a bunch of movie bigwigs, to make that decision.

[texasgal]

Oct 3, 2009 9:51:28 GMT -5 floot said:

However, even if Polanski had been in prison, the book would still have been there to be adapted, the screenwriter or some other writer might still have written the screenplay, and one can never know whether another director might have done just as good a job.

Floot, that was my point in saying what can be accomplished despite being incarcerated. Many have gone all the way through university, from Zero to Ph.D. while in prison. Others have painted and written books and plays.

And I've also made the point that had this crime been committed by someone less artistic, influential and famous than Polanski, would such a petition ever have come to be and been signed by so many artistic, influential and famous people? I doubt it.

Tinalouise, I cut and pasted the content of the petition here:

We have learned the astonishing news of Roman Polanski’s arrest by the Swiss police on September 26th, upon arrival in Zurich (Switzerland) while on his way to a film festival where he was due to receive an award for his career in filmmaking.

His arrest follows an American arrest warrant dating from 1978 against the filmmaker, in a case of morals.

Filmmakers in France, in Europe, in the United States and around the world are dismayed by this decision. It seems inadmissible to them that an international cultural event, paying homage to one of the greatest contemporary filmmakers, is used by the police to apprehend him.

By their extraterritorial nature, film festivals the world over have always permitted works to be shown and for filmmakers to present them freely and safely, even when certain States opposed this.

The arrest of Roman Polanski in a neutral country, where he assumed he could travel without hindrance, undermines this tradition: it opens the way for actions of which no one can know the effects.

Roman Polanski is a French citizen, a renown and international artist now facing extradition. This extradition, if it takes place, will be heavy in consequences and will take away his freedom.

Filmmakers, actors, producers and technicians—everyone involved in international filmmaking—want him to know that he has their support and friendship.

On September 16th, 2009, Mr. Charles Rivkin, the US Ambassador to France, received French artists and intellectuals at the embassy. He presented to them the new Minister Counselor for Public Affairs at the embassy, Ms Judith Baroody. In perfect French she lauded the Franco-American friendship and recommended the development of cultural relations between our two countries.

If only in the name of this friendship between our two countries, we demand the immediate release of Roman Polanski.

[texasgal]

A few factual comments to the above petition:

"...in a case of morals."
It's not a case of morals. It's a criminal case. Sex with a minor (with or without consent!) was and is a felony.

"...even when certain states opposed this."
I'm not sure that's factually true.

"...where he assumed he could travel."
Instead of assuming, he should have checked to see if Switzerland has extradition arrangements with the U.S. To assume anything is not a guarantee.

"Roman Polanski is a French citizen...."
I believe he's a dual French-U.S. citizen. But still that's beside the point. A fugitive from justice, if he/she enters a country that has extradition arrangements with the U.S., is subject to arrest and extradition to U.S.

"...everyone involved in international filmmaking..."
Not true. Not everyone involved in international filmmaking has signed the petition.

[floot]

Yes, I agree with you, Texasgirl; I hope I didn't come off as not doing so!

That's interesting (though perhaps not surprising...?) that there are such glaring factual errors on the petition.

I don't know what the end result should be, but I'm absolutely certain that the signees on that petition should not be the ones to decide it.

My inner cynic wonders if so many of the signatories would be keen to defend him on the basis of his work and talent if that talent hadn't also earned him considerable wealth and influence along the way. Bah.

[texasgal]

No, that's OK, Floot. Actually, your point was better-written!

I agree people have the right to sign petitions and voice their opinions all they want; I do so myself all the time! But you're right that they don't have the right to make the decision (and I'm sure they realize this). In order to make any difference, a bill addressing this situation would have to be passed by the state legislature to maybe set an expiration date to outstanding sentences. But, even then, such a law (if passed) would probably not be retroactive but only take effect after a certain future date, not a past date. And I believe it would be political suicide for any congressperson to introduce or sign onto such a bill.

And petitions weaken themselves if they contain factual errors.

[lonegazer]

Good for Chris Rock who had the guts to say on the Jay Leno show that what Roman Polanski did was rape. Luke filmed with Chris in Death at a Funeral earlier this year and I just hope the Wilson brothers, and my almost equal fave Ben Stiller, have a similar opinion. I also like watching Everyboy Hates Chris so it's a relief to hear Chris shares most peoples opinion.

I don't care about any of the nonentities listed on the petition, I haven't exactly rushed to see any of their films. The last Martin Scorsese film I saw was probably Cape Fear and that's a 1991 film which I've only seen on TV. And I definitely haven't seen pervert Polanski's films, if I want to see anything on the Holocaust I've got documentary channels and the library for information so I don't need to pad out his bank account.

Chris Rock video:

jezebel.com/5372888/chris-rock-on-roman-polanski-its-rape-rape

[floot]

Well said, Chris. I hope he keeps pointing that out to people - he strikes me as the kind of person who could get in a lot of people's faces (in a good way) about it.

If I had any idea how, I'd start a petition to point out that a crime is a crime, rape is rape, Roman should face the music (as I said before, I suspect there are better ways, at his age, than locking him up for his remaining years, but there should be justice in some form); and that the people who are supporting him should go read the grand jury testimony and see if they can still look at themselves in the mirror without blushing.

This is a case where I think some folks would garner more respect by standing up and saying "I was wrong" than by sticking to their guns.

[iluvtexas]

I actually saw the Jay Leno show your referring to as it was recorded on DVR...and Jay Leno talked about it in his opening monologue. He could not believe it either and did not support the petition. He and Chris Rock talked about it and Chris has two daughters which he mentioned during their conversation. He even went on to say he has spent most of his life touring all over the world and not once had he ever noticed any 13 year old girl who looked older than just 13 years old...He and Jay Leno laughed making fun of Polanski. Chris Rock spoke out very directly about how much he could not understand Hollywood mentality. He also mentioned he lives in New Jersey....You could see he was not buying any of it and neither was Jay Leno. To them both I say Thank You.

Here are a few additional facts about the Polanski case...In case you did not know....

They are quoted from several Fox news stories. As you read please keep in mind whose signatures you do not see supporting the petition such as Jack Nicholson for example, his signature is not on the petition.

I mentioned this previously but I will say it again there are many, many more actors/directors who have not supported the petition than those who have and again I offer a heartfelt "Thank You" to all of those folks for not supporting the petition and for not condoning the actions of drugging and rape of a child.

1. "Fugitive director Roman Polanski received a message from prosecutors in a sexually explicit court motion Tuesday that all is not forgiven and they will fight dismissal of a three-decade-old conviction for raping a 13-year-old."

2. "Authorities in Los Angeles consider Polanski a convicted felon and fugitive, and a Swiss justice official said there has been an international arrest warrant out on him since 2005."

3."The documents filed by the district attorney's office would be rated "X" in movie terminology and contained a reminder that the rape occurred at the home of Academy Award-winning actor Jack Nicholson" ("while the actor was away.")

4. In a footnote, the document said: "Jack Nicholson was not home at the time of the events and had no knowledge of the activities of Roman Polanski."

5. "Although the director, who lives in France, often stayed at a chalet in the wealthy Swiss town of Gstaad and traveled widely through France, Germany and other European nations, a Swiss official said this was the first time law enforcement authorities had solid information from the United States so they could make the arrest." "Last week, we received precise information when and where he would arrive, enabling us to make the arrest. That was the first time," Justice Ministry spokesman Guido Balmer said."

6. "In "1977, the then 44-year-old Polanski photographed the 13-year-old girl as part of a guest-editing gig at the French edition of "Vogue." The girl later testified in court that Polanski gave her alcohol and Quaalude's and sexually assaulted her without her consent."

7. "The motion, drawing on descriptions contained in transcripts of grand jury hearings in 1977, provided details of a photo shoot in which the young girl was given champagne and part of a Quaalude pill, was told to disrobe and was subjected to oral copulation, forced intercourse and sodomy by Polanski."

8. "She said that, despite her protests, he performed oral sex, intercourse and sodomy on her." "It said the victim asked him to stop several times and that she was in tears when Polanski drove her home."

9."At some point, the defendant warned the victim not to tell her mother about what had happened, adding that `This is our secret,"' the motion said."

10."the defendant pleaded freely and voluntarily to a felony, with the understanding that the judge would determine the appropriate sentence."

11."The details of Polanski's sexual activity with the girl had never been described in legal documents because he was permitted to plead guilty to a single charge of sexual intercourse with a minor and other charges were dismissed."

12."That decision was explained in Tuesday's motion, which said it was based on the teenager's concerns. The document said the victim expressed in no uncertain terms that she wished to maintain her anonymity and avoid the further trauma that would accompany a full-blown jury trial. Based on these expressed concerns, on Aug. 8, 1977, the defendant was permitted to plead guilty to one felony count ... for having unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor. ... This was an open plea to the court, meaning that at the time of the plea, there did not exist any agreement as to what sentence may or may not be imposed."

13."Polanski was sent to prison for a diagnostic study, released after 42 days and scheduled to appear before the judge for sentencing on the day that he fled to France."

14."But the Los Angeles County district attorney's office, which is seeking to have Polanski extradited to California, isn't interested in petitions from the stars — it has a job to do, DA spokeswomen Jane Robison told FOXNews.com." "Will the DA respond to pressure from Tinseltown's biggest bigwigs? "No." Will the DA consider their plea to give up on extradition? "No." Does the DA have any plans to meet with the directors allying themselves with Polanski? "No."

15. "Polanski, who has dual French-Polish citizenship, has hired Swiss attorney Lorenz Erni to represent him in Switzerland."

16. Quote from Greg Gutfeld Fox News...."Surely some of these sympathetic directors and actors must have a teenage daughter. So, to prove their belief that Roman is a truly gentle man exempt from stupid American ideals of justice, these supporters should feel confident enough to leave their daughter alone with the man in a hot tub. The upside is, Roman is in his 70s now, so maybe this time the girl will have a fighting chance."

*************************

More information and this article is also from Fox News it is dated May 28, 2008

Could it be anymore obvious that he has no remorse, shame or guilt about what he did to a child.....Unbelieveable.....

"Director Roman Polanski has finally seen the documentary made about him called “Polanski: Wanted and Desired.”

Polanski appeared on Sunday at the Cannes Film Festival to hand out the Palme d’Or award for Best Film to the French feature “Entre les Murs.”

Afterwards, I’m told, he spoke at length over lunch in Cannes with director Marina Zenovich, who made the film about his 1978 trial for unlawful sexual contact and engaging in sexual acts with a 13-year-old girl, his subsequent imprisonment and decision to leave the United States.

I’m told that Polanski saw “Wanted and Desired” earlier last week in Paris on DVD. He told Zenovich that he “loved” the movie even though it doesn’t exonerate him. It just impartially lays out the facts of everything that happened. Polanski approves, and may even attend a Paris premiere that’s being planned.

HBO is airing the documentary on June 9th, followed by a theatrical release by ThinkFilms. The Weinstein Company will distribute it throughout Europe.

Polanski, who despite the 1978 trial has since won an Oscar for Best Director ("The Pianist," 2003), also told Harvey Weinstein and PR maven Peggy Siegal that he was “deeply touched” by the recent screening in New York hosted by 25 famous directors."

[Vera]

Please excuse me if I repeat anything someone else has already said. I've been very busy the last few days and couldn't read all the comments thoroughly--I had to skim.

There is a new fact that has come out in this case. The victim filed a civil suit in the early '90s and Polanski settled the case for $500,000. It is believed, but not confirmed, that Polanski never paid her the money. She had to file a petition at some point to try to get the money and nothing is known about it since then. Roman Polanski--and all around stand up guy! NOT! Just unbelievable.

I'm ashamed to say I saw the Pianist when it first came out. At that time I didn't know the details of the case...I thought it was some sort of "he said, she said." Now that I know the details, I certainly won't be seeing any more of his stuff.

I haven't decided if I will always and forever boycott Wes. I'll see if he has a change of heart or explanation. For sure I'm boycotting Mr. Fox because it's a children's movie.

[Vera]

Another thing...Harvey Weinstein is sure an utterly absurd man. Did you read his letter? He called the rape a "so-called crime". WTF? The rest of the letter was ridiculous, blaming Polanski's behavior on the fact that he had survived the Holocaust (what an insult to Holocaust survivors) and the fact that his wife was murdered. Many people have trauma in their lives but don't go out and rape children because of it! The main thing I got from reading his letter was this is not a very bright man. Not at all.

He also said in his letter that he was going to ask "everyone he knows" to also sign the petition. Can you imagine being an actor in one of his movies and reading that? They're all probably changing their email addresses right now fearing for their jobs if they don't sign. Penelope Cruz signed the petition and I wonder if it is because she felt pressure from Harvey. Penelope supposedly is Harvey's pick for Best Supporting Actress in Nine and he is going to be marketing and supporting and lobbying for her nomination. I can only imagine the pressure she was under. Either that or she's a morally vacant person. I'd like an explanation from her and Natalie Portman about this as well!